Jessica’s note: While reading Meredith Duran’s Written on Your Skin recently, I was struck by how lovely and important a brief bit of dancing in the country was to the couple’s developing relationship. I thought right away about another book, Julie Ann Long’s To Love a Thief, in which the hero teaches the heroine how to dance as part of a general education in how to be a lady, and gets schooled himself. I thought it might be nice to do a post on dancing in romance, and to ask readers to share their favorite dance scenes. Janet offered to take the lead. Thanks, Janet!
Doing without Dancing
By Janet Webb, aka @JanetNorCal
It may be possible to do without dancing entirely. Instances have been known of young people passing many, many months successively, without being at any ball of any description, and no material injury accrue to any body or mind;—but when a beginning is made—when the felicities of rapid motion have once been, though slightly, felt—it must be a very heavy set that does not ask for more.
—Jane Austen, Emma
Dancing, in historicals that are accurate (mostly) for the Regency era, can be a time out of time. When else could a man and a woman speak together without the presence of a chaperone or a group of friends? I am speaking in particular about the waltz, although other dances certainly allowed for conversation as well. And more than conversation: sometimes the repartee and just the sensation of closeness seem like a first sexual encounter. Intensely moving and sometimes setting the tone for a relationship.
In Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen: Darcy is invited by his friend Mr. Bingley to dance with Elizabeth Bennett. He declines and his reasons, rather snobbish and patronizing, are overheard by Elizabeth. Her pride is hurt and she is prejudiced against him. They do eventually dance though, and different feelings and emotions are felt by them both. This is the essence of a meaningful “minuet” LoL: feelings change, sometimes, through physical proximity.
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBgaO9Va5cA
Of course, “Our” notion of dancing in historical romances almost entirely focuses on the waltz and the truth is, dancing was more like Scottish country dancing today — dances done in groups. This is why, for example, in Georgette Heyers’s Friday’s Child, there is a scene at Almacks when George, Lord Wortham tries, yet again, to convince Isabella Milbourne of his undying love for her, but is constantly interrupted by the movements of the country dance — and their increasingly heated and uncomfortable interchange amused everyone watching. Dancing was not a deux, or at least not often, in Regency times.
Or consider Sylvester by Georgette Heyer: Sylvester arranges for Phoebe to come to London after he rescues her from a carriage accident. She is on the road in the first place because she is running away from a marriage proposal from him, a duke! He is quite insulted when he learns she would rather become a writer, living with her former governess, than marry him (not that he wants to marry her!). He’s a duke and very prideful and he’s both intrigued and insulted by her behaviour. Wait, there’s more. Phoebe wrote an extremely clever roman a clef based on her horrific London season the year before: Sylvester is the erstwhile villain. It is published soon after she returns to London and although it is fiction, it is hauntingly accurate. Sylvester is furious. As one might expect, the rumours of authorship start to fly and Sylvester insists that Phoebe waltz with him: ostensibly to quell the rumours but he rips into her and she flees the dance floor. One doesn’t have to be a scholar of Freud to understand the sub-text: both of them have feelings for each other that are by no means entirely negative.
Occasionally the dance floor can be the first place where a couple interact with equal footing, like in An Unwilling Bride by Jo Beverley. Lucien is a marquess, a dangerous and glittery blond. Beth, his fiancée, a former school teacher, is quite terrified of the feelings he evokes in her and the power he holds in the relationship. Their first dance is at their engagement ball and it’s a courtly minuet a deux. Here’s a passage:
They turned to face each other. She watched him carefully. When, as she expected, he performed an elaborately deep full bow, she sank into as deep a court curtsey as her skirt would allow, her eyes correctly on his at all times. Then she rose slowly with smooth control. She did not place her hand in his outstretched one until the last moment to make it clear to all that she needed no assistance in rising.
This was somewhat of a turning point for them. In a pleasing reflection of that pivotal moment, they dance the same dance at their wedding.
Sometimes a dance allows a gentleman – or more likely a rake – to cut through convention. This happens in A Summer to Remember by Mary Balogh. Kit has bet his friends that he can convince the most Ice Princess-like lady of the ton to marry him. Of course, he has not even met her when he agrees on this wager and when he arrives at a ball that Lauren is also attending, he knows he’ll never be able to get past the phalanx of her over-protective family. A friendly matron presents Kit to Lauren as an acceptable partner (remember, there always has to be an introduction if a couple has not previously met) and Lauren agrees to waltz with him. That act of deliberate stepping outside her role on Lauren’s part starts the chain of events moving. And of course Kit speaks to her in an unusually double-entendredrish way.
In Balogh’s Slightly Dangerous, Christine has formed a very poor impression of Wulfric, the duke of Bedwyn. She has been in attendance at a house party with him – and others – for a week or so. At the closing ball she changes her opinion of him. Wulfric asks a homely, overlooked gentlewoman to dance, and Christine is forced to admit to herself that nothing but sheer gentility and grace on Wulfric’s part could have been the impetus. Christine and Wulf also have one of Balogh’s trademark natural surroundings sexual coming-togethers … because their dance was interrupted when a clumsy oaf landed heavily on Christine’s foot, they continued their waltz outside in the garden and, as they say, one thing led to another.
Concluding with another Balogh, A Christmas Bride, one sees how a dance can restore – or at a minimum, paper-over – a damaged reputation. Pris, the former mistress of Precious Jewel, is now married to Gerald, but their married life is lonely because they removed from the ton because of her former profession. Edgar, the hero of A Christmas Bride, sets a scheme in motion whereby Gerald and Pris join him and his family and an assortment of aristocrats, including the very haughty and reserved Duke of Bridgewater, for the Christmas season. When the duke asks Priscilla to dance with him at the Christmas Day ball the reader knows that from then on, Priscilla and Gerald will be able to rejoin their peers in English society. It is an intensely satisfying moment.
Thank you, Janet!
Like Janet, all of my examples are from historicals. Which makes me wonder: can dancing be significant in a contemporary romance, given we know the couple can just go get naked if they choose? Are couples in paranormal too busy fighting the bad guys to dance?
What do you think are some of the most memorable dance scenes in romance?
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#1 by Shiloh Walker on April 17, 2010 - 11:39 am
I think one of my Hunter books has a dance scene in it-it’s where the hero first notices the heroine. But in general, I don’t mention dancing much, and I can’t think of too many contemps where dancing is mentioned much…hmmm.
For some reason, the only ‘scene’ that’s really sticking out in my mind isn’t even a book-it’s Dirty Dancing, when Baby seduces Johnny.
Maybe dancing was more important in historicals because that was a more socially acceptable way for the H/H to be close-not such an issue now, so maybe that’s why we don’t see it?
#2 by Magdalen on April 17, 2010 - 2:22 pm
Contemporary, but non-romance example: In a recent episode of House (one directed by Hugh Laurie, btw), Chase (Jesse Spencer) and Cameron (Jennifer Morrison) are estranged. She’s brought the divorce papers for him to sign and, as fate would have it, they are forced to spend several hours alone together.
They finally talk about why their marriage failed. In the middle of that conversation he asks her if there’s anything, any moment, of their marriage she misses. Taking dancing lessons for their wedding reception, she tells him, and the knowledge that they’ll never dance again.
So he whips out his iPhone, sets it to play some music, and they dance. (Then they do the horizontal mambo. Plus, the entire scene is poignant on a meta-level, as the actors had been engaged to be married in real life, but broke it off.)
I know people who take ballroom dancing lessons so that they can dance with each other. But the opportunities to dance in each other’s arms are limited in modern times. And of the dancing on offer in clubs, etc., conversation is not usually a part.
#3 by willaful on April 17, 2010 - 3:16 pm
Another Austen — in Northhanger Abbey, Henry Tilney facetiously tells Catherine that dancing is just like being married and they argue the point. Althoug she refuses to admit they’re anything alike, dancing is a very significant issue in her life — not being asked, being asked by the wrong person, the happiness of finally being asked by the right person, and she gets pretty emotional about her partner forgetting her – she has to sit out and be misjudged as someone who *didn’t* have a partner! The horror!
There’s a rather lovely scene of the previous book’s couple dancing (outside, barefoot, IIRC, her awkwardly pregnant) in Anne’s Perfect Husband by Gayle Wilson.
One contemporary I can think of is Nora Robert’s Bed of Roses, in which the heroine had a lifelong fantasy of dancing with her true love.
#4 by willaful on April 17, 2010 - 3:19 pm
Dancing also tends to feature in books with a handicapped hero or heroine, representative of something they’re deprived of, sometimes something they finally, triumphantly achieve. I can’t remember which book now (pretty sure it’s a historical) but I remember a scene of a woman with a crippled leg making love for for the first time and rejoicing that this is a “dance” she can do.
#5 by Julie L. on April 17, 2010 - 3:44 pm
I wrote a story based in the mid-1960′s in which dancing is key between the hero and heroine. He sees her across a dance floor, asks her to dance, they hit it off, but there’s a big misunderstanding, blah, blah, blah, time passes and they meet and dance again at a dance, more word play between them (all to Beatles songs btw) and then when they finally reach their pinnacle moment when they connect again and realize they’re in love – they do it while dancing! I had a lot of fun writing it and matching the songs with the moments. It’s based on Austen’s P&P, but updated to the 60′s.
#6 by Moriah Jovan on April 17, 2010 - 4:14 pm
I do it. Since my books have LDS characters, and dancing is an integral part of my religious culture, going without dancing is not an option.
However, it’s in the book I’m writing now that it’s a significant part of the couple’s courtship, whereas in the other couples’, it’s written in passing.
#7 by Janet W on April 17, 2010 - 7:14 pm
Willaful, I know the story you’re referring to: it’s Hazard by Jo Beverley. That was a lovely scene.
And Balogh has a couple stories where characters you might not expect to dance — a young deaf girl — a gravely injured soldier missing an arm — they both dance with their loves.
#8 by Marsh on April 17, 2010 - 8:29 pm
Julie James’ latest Something About You has a dancing scene set at a wedding. The H/h have been holding off on their physical attraction for eleventy-billion reasons, and the dance sort of marks the line between the before and after. Very sexy and highly sweet.
There was another dance in a contemporary that I’ve read recently, but I’m having trouble coming up with precisely what and where. Might be all the rioja we’ve had tonight…I’ll have to think more on it, but on the point of dancing, especially in contemporaries, I wonder if the reason that I enjoy those types of scenes so much and really respond to the messages contained therein is because there is so little dancing in my own life (as in, my husband and I did not have dancing at our otherwise fairly standard-issue wedding). Perhaps it serves for me as an emotional amplifier? Worth thinking about.
#9 by willaful on April 17, 2010 - 9:17 pm
Thanks Janet, I would have gone crazy trying to remember that!
I think dancing can be just as effective in contemporaries — after all, there are often plot obstacles keeping the characters from hopping into the sack.
#10 by Lorelie Brown on April 17, 2010 - 10:20 pm
Hah! I clicked out of G-reader to say Something About You and find Marsh has beaten me to it.
#11 by Vi on April 17, 2010 - 10:37 pm
Early in Nora Roberts’ Northern Lights, Meg forces Nate to dance at a New Year’s Eve party. He tries to refuse by telling her he’s tired and also rusty at dancing. She replies that she will lead then, which causes Nate to laugh. It’s a breakthrough with that laugh.
I just ordered Sylvester and am looking for the Balogh short story. Thank you for writing such a lovely piece on dancing.
#12 by Janet W on April 18, 2010 - 8:56 am
Thanks Vi! It actually is not a short story by Balogh — my poor description: the first is Silent Melody (the heroine is deaf) and the 2nd is Simply Love (a soldier w/severe injuries). I like the word you picked: “breakthrough” — I was trying to describe to my husband how few were the opportunities to speak one on one in the aristocratic world of the ton. How could a couple break through to an intimate conversation?
I’m not very knowledgeable about the Steampunk milieu — hopefully someone can answer my question: are dances a part of a culture that is both sci-fi/retro?
Note: the quote from Emma was discovered in a marvelous blog by Keira Soleore ~ filled with unforgettable Austen quotes.
#13 by Amber on April 18, 2010 - 9:41 am
I’ve been trying to think of a contemporary romance that has a pivotal dance scene, and the only one I can come up with is Phantom Waltz by Catherine Anderson. It’s probably the most unusual (and moving) dance scene that I’ve ever read.
#14 by Vi on April 18, 2010 - 9:51 am
I confused you Janet. I meant the Balogh Christmas short story. I have read a Precious Jewel and didn’t know that there is a connecting story.
Again, Janet, good point about steampunk: duh! I just started Gail Carriger’s Soulless. The rules of society do apply. The heroine runs into major trouble when she retreats to a library at a private ball.
#15 by willaful on April 18, 2010 - 12:12 pm
Christmas Bride isn’t a short story either, VI, it’s a full novel. BTW, it is going to be reprinted (I think for this Christmas, though you’d have to check Balogh’s web site), so don’t go spending a gazillion dollars on it!
#16 by RfP on April 18, 2010 - 12:56 pm
Dance is something I really enjoy in Regencies. I assume one of the reasons there’s little dancing in contemporaries is that there isn’t much partner-dancing these days; the characters would have to have a special interest in dance (ballroom, latin, swing, etc). I do recall some 1990s Harlequin Presents in which there was dancing at galas and house parties–which fits the old-fashioned/rich-and-famous social settings of that Harlequin line.
Perhaps that depends on whether:
(1) The novel is all about a high-drama relationship in which the alpha critter (a la Feehan) is too broody and obsessed to dance, or
(2) The story includes more of the everyday ways that couples get to know each other, or
(3) It’s camp, which may combine (1) and (2). (Do the JR Ward books fit this category? I’ve never read one, but the descriptions sound campy.)
Along the lines of (2), there’s dancing in some urban fantasy. In Kim Harrison’s Rachel Morgan series, the vampire boyfriend manages a dance club where vampires let their hair down to such an extent that they exude some sort of fantastic pheromone. Keri Arthur’s Riley Jenson books often depict a dance club/sex club for werecritters to meet and hook up.
#17 by Vi on April 18, 2010 - 1:27 pm
Willaful, thanks for that info! I can’t wait. I am also on pins and needles waiting for The Notorious Rake to be re-printed, next year, I think.
#18 by Janet W on April 18, 2010 - 3:14 pm
The Notorious Rake — more dancing! The Christmas Bride … almost everything pivotal until the h/h marry is preceded by dancing. And Dancing with Clara: an ironic title when the heroine cannot walk.
This is totally haha but contemps, lap dances … goodness … altho what about those balls described by Jo Bev, where the ladies of the evening danced in ways that were similar but not to places like Almacks (I talking costumes or lack there of, the poses they struck).
#19 by RfP on April 18, 2010 - 3:27 pm
This post reminds me: I so enjoy dance-with-conversation in romances that I even bought a Heather Graham romantic suspense novel a few years ago because of the title, Dead on the Dance Floor. Reading a book for that type of reason never pans out for me, and I didn’t have a lot of hope to begin with, given how dog-awful I’ve found other HG books!
So that purchase demonstrates both how much I like the dance-floor scenario and what a slow learner I can be.
#20 by azteclady on April 18, 2010 - 4:31 pm
I just re-read a couple of Nalini Singh’s Psy/Changeling books and there are a few dance scenes that are significant, but other than that, the only contemporary romance where a dance scene plays a significant rôle is the aforementioned Phantom Waltz.
It makes sense that in a cultural milieu where men and women are kept separated from each other, any excuse for a few moments alone (even if it’s more an illusion than anything else, what with being in the middle of a crowded ballroom) would be not just welcomed but encouraged.
For some reason, though, the dance scene in a historical that came to mind before all others is in Pam Rosenthal’s Almost a Gentleman. (Yeah, funny how my brain works….)
#21 by Tumperkin on April 18, 2010 - 4:38 pm
Oh, what a fun post!
I do think dance features more in historical than other genres because it was an acceptable situation in which to touch someone, but really there’s no reason it couldn’t work for exactly the same reasons in a contemporary, provided it’s the right ‘kind’ of dancing, and not just vague shuffling in the general direction of another person. And yes, Balogh does it brilliantly.
In contemps:
1. Ok, it’s 30 years old, but my favourite Charlotte Lamb opens with heroine going to a party and dancing with the hero while fantasising he’s her dead husband;
2. I have this idea in my head that Dirty by Megan Hart has a scene with dancing/ a club in it – but can’t recall for certain
#22 by Sherry Thomas on April 18, 2010 - 5:53 pm
Judith Ivory. Good dancing scenes in both THE PROPOSITION (heroine teaches hero to waltz) and iirc, BLISS, hero and heroine dancing at a village party as foreplay.
Loretta Chase. Lord of Scoundrels has a good one.
#23 by KristieJ on April 18, 2010 - 6:05 pm
I love dancing scenes in historicals when the dancing is used as a way to bring couples together. I’m blanking on any specific examples but if one comes to mind, I’ll be back *g*.
#24 by RfP on April 18, 2010 - 6:25 pm
On the Gab a while back, I posted a sweet dance lesson from Heyer’s Cotillion. It’s a nice scene for the heroine’s development as well as for teasing the reader about the hero’s identity.
#25 by Janet W on April 18, 2010 - 6:48 pm
Hi Reading for Pleasure: please excuse my ignorance but what’s On the Gab? Can you link to it? Cotillion is a fave Heyer of mine and I’ve read it a ton of times so which dance lesson are you referring to? When Freddy was dancing (as Freddy the dance teacher) and Jack interrupts the lesson? I’m like willaful: this will kill me until I read it
#26 by RfP on April 18, 2010 - 7:28 pm
Janet W, I did try to link to it–I’m sorry it’s not working for you. Here it is, and yes, you’ve guessed it right
I love that scene too.
http://accessromance.com/gab/2008/12/04/cotillion-by-georgette-heyer/
#27 by Phyl on April 18, 2010 - 8:19 pm
I have a vague memory of a dance scene in Feehan’s Dark Gold, the 3rd Carpathian book. Heroine Alexandria, resistant to the idea of being Julian’s lifemate (aren’t they all?), runs off to a dance club by herself. Naturally, Julian follows and cuts in when Alexandria is dancing with someone else. Their dance becomes some sexy foreplay. I like those early Dark books and this is one of my favorites.
#28 by Janet W on April 18, 2010 - 8:35 pm
Thanks RfP … what a wonderful piece w/great comments too.
#29 by Jessica on April 18, 2010 - 9:41 pm
Thanks Janet and everyone for the great discussion!
I did just remember a paranormal dance scene I liked a lot: In Meljean Brook’s Demon Moon, the hero owns a nightclub, and he watches the heroine danne in a very early scene. Not necessarily pivotal (and maybe that’s the distinction I am looking for between Regencies and other subgenres) but great scene setting and introduction to both characters.
#30 by Dishonor on April 18, 2010 - 9:48 pm
Dancing With Clara was the second Balogh I tried and the first that I truly adored. It left me crying my eyes out. Silent Melody also has a poignant one (“We will dance, Emmy. We will prove to these unbelievers that a man who is weary through to the marrow of his bones and a woman who cannot hear music or anything else can dance without missing a step.”), though all in all, I preferred Dancing With Clara.
For me, Written on Your Skin simply didn’t pull on my heartstrings as BBYT or DoS did. I thought that the dance scene was nice, but not nearly so memorable as any of the interactions between Lydia and James (who I have a terrible crush on).
#31 by RfP on April 18, 2010 - 10:20 pm
@Jessica: I actually think the dance club is pivotal early in the Kim Harrison series. Not in terms of touch or conversation, but it’s a relationship-building experience because the heroine realizes the vampires genuinely love to dance. Which is a quality I don’t always see portrayed in Regencies. To build the romance, dancing has to be an opportunity to converse and flirt, but I’m not sure the characters always love to dance. Perhaps a real love of dancing separates the hero/ine for too much of the evening.
#32 by Keira Soleore on April 18, 2010 - 10:39 pm
I’m arriving here rather late for this discussion. Janet, what an excellent post!! One of the best dancing scenes for me were the visuals in the 2005 movie Pride & Prejudice. Lizzy with Collins and Lizzy with Darcy.
Of unequal dancing statuses, Sherry Thomas at #22 above gives perfect examples of both the newbie and the exeprienced partners learning much more in the course of the dance lesson(s): THE PROPOSITION by Judith Ivory and LORD OF SCOUNDRELS by Loretta Chase.
#33 by Jocelyn Z. on April 19, 2010 - 11:10 am
RfP, that’s an excellent point about dancing in historicals being a chance to talk, and in contemps, it’s a chance to talk about how the characters love dancing.
I just finished reading a paranormal by Lynn Viehl, “Stay the Night,” where dancing was what got the heroine to notice the hero, and then gave away how much the (secondary, possible sequel-bait) villein was attracted to the heroine. In that book, it really was just about how the heroine loved to dance, and how dancing makes you notice another person.
As I’ve mentioned earlier in other threads, I’ve taken classes in ballroom dancing, and though I suck, I can tell you that it’s much more intimate and you have to concentrate much harder on your partner than with normal, modern dancing (which I also love). The biggest difference is that a ballroom dance floor is sort of like a time machine – the man always leads, and the woman pays attention and follows. Following is a really difficult skill to pick up, and if you don’t concentrate, you trip on yourself and trip up your partner. It’s much more difficult than steering and not bumping into people, which is about all the man has to do. After taking classes, I’m shocked that more dance scenes in historicals don’t have the couples falling down.
I think that’s why the dance scene in “Lord of Scoundrels” is my favorite, because it’s the only one I can think of where the heroine just gives up control and follows. Even though she knows Dain isn’t trustworthy, and that he’s damaging her reputation, she knows there’s nothing she can do about it in the context of their waltz, so she just follows and enjoys it.
#34 by willaful on April 19, 2010 - 11:38 am
My favorite movie quote: “He forced me into it. Where the man goes, the lady must follow. I had no choice!”
(I’m a salsa dancer.)
#35 by Moriah Jovan on April 19, 2010 - 4:16 pm
Strictly Ballroom!!
#36 by Victoria Janssen on April 20, 2010 - 2:14 pm
Jessica told me it was okay to post these excerpts; I was directly influenced by dancing scenes in historicals.
Here’s a brief dancing scene from the end of THE MOONLIGHT MISTRESS:
#
[Lucilla] shed her cape and apron in the changing room, opting for an overcoat instead, then wandered out to the terrace. A couple score of the ambulatory patients sat there, listening to a makeshift orchestra play whatever all of the musicians knew, or partially knew. Presently, it was some semblance of a waltz. She didn’t see Pascal. She circumnavigated the building until she found him on the path leading to X-Ray and her quarters.
“Looking for me?” she asked.
He turned to her and bowed, sweeping off his képi. “Mademoiselle wishes to dance?”
“My card isn’t quite full,” she said, and allowed him to sweep her into his arms. She slipped her arms beneath his greatcoat and held him tightly as they danced atop frozen mud. After a few minutes, she commented, “You’re a terrible dancer.”
Pascal bent and kissed her ear. “I am brilliant instead. Also, I know where you prefer to be licked.”
#
#37 by Victoria Janssen on April 20, 2010 - 2:15 pm
And here’s the new one, from the upcoming The Duke and the Pirate Queen:
#
Music swirled up from the stern, pipes and single-string and drumming, soon joined by voices raised in song and the syncopated thump of feet on the deck. “Or we could dance,” [Imena] said. “For a while.”
[Maxime] grinned and gripped her waist, momentarily lifting her off her feet. “One dance, and then another,” he said. “That’s what this evening has been missing. Shall we head sternwards?”
“Here,” she said. “We can hear the music perfectly well.” And she wanted him all to herself. If they joined the celebrating crew, he would feel obliged to talk and dance with anyone who asked, and she could not be an anonymous reveler, either.
Without further discussion, Maxime swept her into a swirling couples pattern that she recognized from the duchies. The bounds of the deck weren’t calibrated for dances that traveled, but they made do, adding breath-stealing twirls and the occasional impromptu hop over a bollard. For a few steps, Maxime even lifted her, swinging her feet on empty air until she couldn’t stop laughing.
The music slowed and stopped. Gasping, she leaned on Maxime, her arms looped around his waist. He kissed her somewhere near her ear and lifted her off the ground once more, squeezing her tightly before he set her down again.
#
#38 by Victoria Janssen on April 20, 2010 - 2:18 pm
There are a lot of nightclub scenes in the Keri Arthur (urban fantasy) books I read – can’t remember if there was much focus on dancing that wasn’t related to pickups in the end.
#39 by Jocelyn Z. on April 22, 2010 - 7:08 pm
willaful – I love that line! And that movie. Funny how that woman’s comment goes from absurd to absolutely true the more you know about ballroom dance – or, Waltz and American Tango, at least. (I love Salsa, but my all-time favorite is Argentine Tango).
I just spotted this blog entry: http://stilllifeinbuenosaires.wordpress.com/2008/10/02/descending/ and think it really is one of the best things I’ve read about leading and following, ever.