These are my notes from the PCA-ACA conference in 2010. Click here for contact information for the panelists in case you’d like to follow up. Please note that my notes are fallible, and attempt to communicate merely the gist of the presentations, not their entire substance.
Romance VI: Romance Publishing: Canadian Romance, ePublishing, and Erotica, Oh My!
Session Chair: Crystal Goldman, San Jose State University
“‘Can I set it in Canada?’: CanLit and Romance Publishing”‖ Jessica Taylor, University of Toronto
Taylor is an anthropologist, utilizes Bourdieu – field of forces , struggles
Thinks about how writers experience industry
Examines the plot in the field of literary production of romance in Canada
Is there romance in Canada and if so does anyone want to read about it
Notes her own gap: knowledge of French language publication especially coming out of Quebec
“Difficult to find romance in Canadian literature.” So said one academic when interviewed.
To be labeled “CanLit” one must fit certain criteria, for example, being Margaret Atwood. (LOLOL!!!)
Notes how hard it is to get any book into traditional media anywhere, but something specific going on in Canada.
With exception of HQN, large publishers in Canada don’t publish romance. Contrast with US.
Structure of govt funding also maintains divisions. Canada Council won’t fund romance.
The part of the literary field which is defined as Canadian is formed by all of these forces – media, industry, govt
Notes that HQN will change CDN cities to US cities. Asserts an ambivalence about whether rom novels can be set in CDN. Agent she interviewed said target audience for categories is US, so setting has to be accessible. If setting is CDN, must be purposefully so.
“Romance Rebound: Further Comparisons in e-Publishing and Print Publishers by Erotica and Erotic Romance Authors”‖ Crystal Goldman
Disagrees with Regis’s definition of romance novel. Now includes multiple heroes, sometimes no heroines at all, no longer a betrothal
Interviewed 10 romance authors published in both e and print erotic romance in 2007-8. Lauren Dane, Tawny Taylor, Sasha White, Kate Pierce, Kate Douglas, others.
At time of initial interview, huge erotica boom.
Popularity of erotic romance has waned a bit (Aphrodisia Kensington editor in PW, others cited as saying erotic romance is “overpublished”).
Saturation.
Market not as large as previously thought.
Many other genres heated up i nterms of editorial, which also explains contraction of erotic romance market.
She went back to the 10 interview subjects recently, hypothesizing the ways the changes in the erotic market has impacted them.
Notes a few of the authors have since sold non-erotic works. They say they wanted to reach a larger audience.
Some wrote for Black Lace, and had to find other houses for work they would have submitted there.
Some signing contacts for 1 book instead of 2.
Softening in epub market maybe due to trad print publishing’s encroachment on market. Ex. Amazon.
Changes in publishing market especially key for romance.
Noting that ebooks selling very well compared to same book in print.
How does the raising of prices and embargo on ebooks affect sales? Not good.
Her new interviews found all of the authors had made or were planning to make some changes, whether in pen names, subgenre, moving bulk of work to e, etc.
Some of the changes in the authors’ careers is due to natural career progression and the recession, but some is due to changes in ebook market.
“Author Discussion: Print and Digital Publishing”‖ Amanda Berry, Harlequin; Jeannie Lin, Harlequin Historical; Sela Carsen, Samhain Publishing
Amanda Berry – publishes SSE.
Has been writing full time for 4 years.
Talking about how one aproaches HQN. Two ways:
- Submit query letter
- Contest
She entered contest. Silhouette Desire. She won, they asked her to do it as SSE. She was puzzled, because she associated SSE with nannies and babies and doctors. Her book was about Hollywood, big shot producer and his assistant.
Jeannie Lin
Writes for Harlequin Historical Mills and Boon, in UK
Harlequin knows exactly how to market their lines and what they are looking for. Down to a science, although there is some leeway.
Decided to write the stories she loved. She loved Tolkein, Lindsay, and martial arts fiction (she is Vietnamese American). Louis Cha, which her grandparents and parents enjoyed. Wanted to mix this part of her into her writing.
Notes that selling romance is hard for anyone.
She write a book set in 8th century Tang dynasty China.
Lots of interest from other publishers but ultimately deemed too risky.
M&B saw international potential. You see more variation in M&B historical.
Her book is Butterfly Swords and is out later this year.
HQN gives authors a sheet to fill out for covers (check off what h/h look like, what landmarks, such as Space Needle, can be used), but none of her book’s characteristics were even on the sheet, so the editors asked her to come up with pictures to give them ideas.
Sela Carson
– paranormal romantic comedy novellas for Samhain publishing
Notes that she married the Air Force, was in London with small kids, in 2002, had always read romance.
She Googled “how to write a romance novel” and came up with eHarlequin which in 2002 was the place to be for a romance writer even if you didn’t want to write for Harlequin
Was having a hard time working and reworking a Regency.
Suddenly had a vision of a chase scene in a crypt in Louisiana that was funny
Wrote a 23000 word novella.
Not hot enough for EC or Loose-I.D.. Sat on it for a year.
Samhain popped up – suddenly novella had a home.
Print anthologies don’t sell all that well, but e anthologies do.
“If you’re writing short, you’re writing for an e-publisher.”
I admit to ignorance: are M&B historicals available in the U.S.? Is there an editorial difference between M&B historical and Harlequin historical?
I’m curious because of this comment: “M&B saw international potential. You see more variation in M&B historical“. I’m aware the U.S. rom market isn’t, according to many rom editors and authors, keen on non-western/English/exotic settings.
lol on the Margaret Atwood comment, although cool that CanLit is even being discussed. Thomas Raddall’s The Nymph and the Lamp is like a classic CanLit romance, but the only people who’ve read it are those who study CanLit at university, and me. But I realize she’s talking about more recent books than that!
I thought I had read Harlequin/Silhouette books set in Canada, but maybe I’m wrong there.
Maili,
M&B historicals are available in the US. The category line is called Harlequin Historical and they can be found in the same section as other categories or series like Harlequin Blaze and Silhouette Desire.
M&B is definitely open to more unusual. I think my book was a bit of a new venture even for them, however.
I also just had to add a bit of a correction. The author’s name is Louis Cha (Jin Yong).
@Jeannie Lin: Thank you Jeannie. I will fix it right away. GREAT presentation, thank you for coming to PCA and doing it.
[...] Read React Review covers the PCA conference – Romance section [...]
@Jessica Thanks! I was thoroughly engaged with your paper. We couldn’t stop talking about it and I was doing a poor job of trying to explain for the few authors that missed it.
@Maili I realized I didn’t answer your first question. The entire Harlequin Historical line is edited in the UK office. I believe this move was recent, within the last couple years or so. The HHs have both an international release as well as a separate North America release.
Maili, I think sometimes the pub dates of M&B Historical vary a little from Harlequin Historical – in the US, I’ve gotten them from Book Depository if I can’t find them here, then sometimes they turn up months later.
@Jeannie Lin: Thank you! I suppose I’m trying to figure out whether M&B would retain books with unusual settings from Harlequin Historical division. Jade Lee said at Dear Author that sales of her Harlequin Historical (sets in ancient China) weren’t very good. I’m not sure if she said anything about sales of M&B Historical, though.
The bottom line: I want to know why M&B thought there would be potential to international settings when many other romance-oriented U.S. publishers heavily resist publishing romance novels set anywhere outside US/England (many U.S. readers support this, too). I wonder if M&B thought there would be potential in it for international (e.g. non-U.S.) readers only.
It’s a nosey question, really, so please do ignore me!
I look forward to reading your book, anyhow!
I’ve found the precise quote:
Jade Lee’s The Concubine was published, edited and acquired by the Blaze line. There have been a few other Blaze Historicals, namely Hope Tarr’s Bound to Please and Betina Krahn’s Make Me Yours.
There are also historicals published under the Steeple Hill (inspirational) imprint.
Michelle Styles had quite a few Roman and Viking romances published in the Mills & Boon/Harlequin Historical line, so those have sold in both the US and internationally, as did Louise Allen’s Roman novel (which ended up being analysed in great detail).
Just to clarify (in case it wasn’t clear already) the editorial team for Mills & Boon historicals is also the editorial team for Harlequin Historicals, and it’s based in London. They’re also responsible for acquiring and editing the Undone stories.
I have a feeling that each month only some of the HHs appear in the shops, while the remainder are only available via the Harlequin website and/or to people who’ve got a subscription to the line. I could be wrong about that, of course, since I’m not in the US.
Some Historicals appear much, much earlier in the UK than they do in the US and, I assume, it sometimes happens the other way round, because when I looked at eHarlequin I saw at least one historical which hasn’t been published in the UK yet.
@Laura Vivanco
Thanks. Not too sure why you mentioned where HH & M&BH are edited, though. In case my enquiries weren’t clear: I was focusing on why M&B (and HQN) thought there would be potential when other rom publishers (including Avon, Berkely, etc.) insist there isn’t any potential. Every time there is a discussion about wanting more variations, editors of these publishers usually say ‘exotic’ settings just don’t sell.
They do publish one now and then, sure, but unless it’s paranormal, they openly resist the rest.
So, with that in mind, my earlier questions were an attempt to find out if M&B was indeed including the U.S. market when they said there would be potential.
Just because I thought it might be of interest. I wasn’t sure if it was relevant or not, but I thought I’d mention it just in case it was.
Harlequin Mills & Boon also publish a fair number of Western-set historical romances, and Wendy the Superlibrarian keeps saying how rare those are, so perhaps Harlequin M&B just feel prepared to take a risk on settings that publishers of single-titles are much more cautious about?
@Laura
Oh, right. Thanks for that explanation.
Western-set, although rare nowadays, aren’t exactly ‘exotic’, is it?
I mean, I once said Russia was a popular location in M&B and single titles and now? Rare as hen’s teeth. But someone took me to task, while disputing this, by pointing out the Russian setting is common in Russian-published romances. In other words, the romance publishing doesn’t – and shouldn’t – revolve around the U.K. (or the U.S.) market. Fair point.
With this in mind, when I read that potential comment, I wondered “does this mean they were referring to western countries or world-wide? Expanding the U.S./U.K. or truly international including the U.S./U.K.?” (I’m so crap at conveying what I want to say. Sorry. It’s quite hard to discuss romance market issues on global level because of, mostly, my ignorance.)
I think because while I saw quite a few M&B books at some shops in cities of Belgium, Argentina, Poland, Japan and South Korea, I still don’t know what kind of romances are available/popular in other countries, especially Eastern Europe, Brazil, Canada, and so on.
From what I saw of M&B books in Japanese bookshops, I have an impression English historical settings are popular, along with a staple of U.S. contemporary category romance authors, like Sharon Sala and I think Janet Dailey (I’m really crap at reading names in katakana).
I wonder if it’s to do with what’s available in domestic markets, e.g. what’s popular in the U.K./U.S. is what other countries will get, regardless of whether readers from those countries like it or not. So if M&B is looking to vary settings, is it because they are trying to bring in more readers from those countries, or trying to warm the U.S. up to the idea of expanding horizons?
Jesus, I’m not even sure if any of that makes sense. It makes sense in my head, but it’s looking all jumbled in writing.
*cough* Sorry. I need a cuppa.
“Can I set it in Canada?” is a question for “literary” fiction in Canada, too, of course. There’s so much awareness of–and insecurity about–the giant market next door. I suspect that the need to prove Canlit “worthy” (in comparison to British and American) has a lot to do with not including/recognizing genre fiction. So ironic that Harlequin is a Canadian company.
(This is all my semi-offensive view as an American long resident in Canada).
The Globe and Mail, a national Canadian paper, had a feature on Kelley Armstrong in the Books section today, which noted that she is “like so many of Canada’s top genre writers, who sell bus-loads of books around the world but are seen as amusingly populist craftspeople at home.” I know Bitten is partly set in Toronto, but haven’t ready any of her others, so I’m not sure if that continues. I just downloaded–free from the Sony store–Susan Fox’s Love, Unexpectedly because it is set in Canada and has an Indo-Canadian hero (judging by his name–haven’t started it yet). So they’re out there, if you look hard. I’d like to read more contemporary romances with people and places that actually resemble those I know.
Hey Jessica, it was Tawny Taylor, not Connie Taylor I interviewed. This is what happens when you present at warp speed
Hello again all! Didn’t mean to disappear. I just returned from the last day of the PCA conference.
@Maili — Definitely wouldn’t ignore your question. I’ve thought quite a lot about it myself. In regards to M&B and their interest, this is mostly conjecture, but I think their decision to take on Butterfly Swords was definitely influenced by the thought that there would be an international (non-U.S.) market. They are planning to release in North America as well so I hope that they also felt there would be U.S. interest. Given that Asian settings have been challenging in the past, it could be the combination of U.S. + potential international interest that tipped it over. M&B may have more of an eye on this international market than other historical romance publishers. Do they see a potential upswing or hope to get into markets they hadn’t been able to penetrate before? I can’t say, but it could be a little of both. (And of course, it’s my naive and optimistic hope that they loved the story enough to believe that it might do all of the above? Coming down from my fantasy now)
As to the response from the U.S. market, I feel there was a good deal of interest and that anyone writing in an Asian setting should actually take heart. Editors were willing to read and, for whatever reason, this book wasn’t the one for them. Since Tang Dynasty China is not tried and true, of course it’s a risk, but that can be said of very many other settings.
[...] I’ve been in downtown St Louis, wearing holes in my shoes. Ok, so that wasn’t my primary reason for haunting the city. I was at the Popular Culture Association/American Culture Association ” [...]
Love Louis Cha.
The Condor Heroes rocked my world–and that of every kid around me.
Maybe it’s time to dust off my big martial arts epic–once I figure out how to wrangle the plot into shape.
@Sherry Thomas: @Jeannie Lin: Where should I start with Louis Cha?
@Crystal Jordan: so sorry! I fixed it!
Oh Sherry, please do!
@Sherry – I know that feeling exactly! And to be unable to share that joy with my Caucasian friends…it’s hard to describe.
@Jessica – Several of his works have been translated into English, but the translations can often be a bit awkward and unable to capture the spirit. With that said — The most popular are probably the two Condor Hero sagas: “Legend of the Condor Heroes” (also called “Eagle Shooting Heroes”, see note about translation) and “Return of the Condor Heroes”. A more self contained story may be “Heaven Sword, Dragon Sabre”.
@Jeannie Lin:
Thank you!
To Jeannie Lin, Sherry Thomas, and other lovers of Wuxia:
I tend to avoid historical films (I was – and still am – much more into HK and some mainland contemporary films) because I don’t get the significance of many references in most of those I saw.
A sample of films I saw: A Man Called Hero. The Duel. Ashes of Time. The Storm Riders (I really don’t get this one, no matter how many times I watch it). The Legend of Zu. A Ghost Story. Also TV drama… harder to remember titles. The Return of Lui…? The one with Alex Man. And some other historical TV drama by TVB Jade/Onyx.
I’m not even sure if any of these fits the Wuxia genre.
Is there a chance one of you will write a blog post about Wuxia along with a list of films? I’ll worship eternally at your feet if you do. =D Thank you.
@Maili
You make an important point about historical films or cultural films in general. They’re geared to an audience with a different cultural background and may not be easily accessible. The challenges of writing English language wuxia is a hot topic amongst the authors who are trying to to it.
I feel very ill-equipped to post about wuxia with a list of films. Mainly because I’m sure I’d be beaten down by huge fanboys who know way more than me! The Wiki on wuxia isn’t a bad start though. It ties wuxia to the chivalric literature tradition in the west.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuxia
@Jessica: The Condor Heroes, definitely. But I went and had a look at Amazon and did not see a translated version of the original. The Condor Heroes is to the Chinese reading public what Lord of the Rings is to the English one.
@SonomaLass: Lol, I’d certainly like to. But it is an unwieldy mess of duel time line and a plot that is actually not big enough for such a big book. If that makes any sense.
@Jeannie Lin: Hmm, I don’t think I’ve ever talked to any non-Chinese friends about Wuxia. I wonder why.
@Maili: I am really the last person to ask about Wuxia movies, because I just haven’t seen a whole lot of them. Have you tried the more recent ones by the big directors, i.e. Ang Lee’s Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, and Zhang Yimou’s Hero & House of Flying Daggers? This last feels to be too small a story, despite its visual beauty and the undeniably comeliness of its leads.
But the thing is, if you want to watch Wuxia, you basically have to watch historical films, because Wuxia is considered to be historical fantasy, more or less. No one today can do the things that those heroes/heroines can do, therefore it is put in a historical context and people suspend their disbelief. Besides, can’t do nothing against guns and cannons no matter how much of a Kung Fu master one is.
The films from my youth, I’m not sure whether they are available with subtitles. But check Jet Li’s filmography for some of his earliest starring vehicles, especially those involving the Shao Lin Temple.
@Sherry Thomas: Thanks for giving me the scoop. I am so intrigued by this, but I guess engagement will have to wait for the English versions, if such a thing is in the offing or is even possible.
@Jeannie Lin: @Sherry Thomas: Thanks for suggestions and advice. I’m thinking it’s a lot to do with my indifference towards martial arts, probably because my uncle’s obsession with martial arts films while I was growing up. I’ll have to overcome this in order to appreciate Wuxia films. I suspect my sons will enjoy them a lot more, so I’ll watch some with them when they’re old enough. Yay.
Yes, saw all these. I didn’t like CTHD and HOFD (both look beautiful but feel shallow), but enjoyed Hero (and the Once Upon a Time in China film series).
Note for anyone who may be interested: I received an email after posting the earlier response. It seems the American/European version of The Storm Riders is heavily edited, which may be why it doesn’t make sense. So happy to learn this! I’ll ask my dad to send me a copy, then.
@Maili: Hmm, I’m not sure whether there are tons of wuxia films that are less about the visual aspects of wuxia and more about the characters–or maybe I should say, I don’t know a lot of them.
Louis Cha is very into the details of martial arts–and details of history, literature, medicine, whatnot. If you want something that is more of a character study–with a darker edge–maybe see if you can find something that’s based on works by Gu Long (Ancient Dragon). He is quite different. In his books you don’t see how people acquired their martial arts skills, they just have them. And they drink and whore and swear and have all sorts of human frailties that the more classical heroes of Louis Cha seem to float above.
Sadly, I really don’t know as much about Wuxia as I would like to. I have only read three authors I like. Louisa Cha stopped writing original stuff decades ago and Ancient Dragon is long dead. And as I’ve grown older, Liang Yusheng becomes too moralistic for my taste. If anyone know any good recent authors–esp. if they write proper heroines–let me know.