No, and here’s why…
(A special guest post by Wayne Kerr)
Same sex marriage is unnatural, and therefore immoral. Because, clearly, everything “unnatural” is bad, and everything “natural” is good. Like … antibiotics and automobiles are bad and earthquakes and hemorrhoids are good.
And, of course, being sexually attracted to the same sex is totally unnatural. That’s why those who are gay go to special camps. I’ve heard it takes years to brainwash someone into being gay.
Anyway, it’s definitely unnatural in the sense that nonhuman animals don’t do it. And that’s bad, because … we always take our behavioral cues from nonhuman animals. For example, instead of tossing bugs I find in my kids’ hair, I eat them. And my boys have gotten super adept at lifting their legs when they pee into the neighbors’ bushes.
And if — as some so called “scientists” are discovering — there is actually quite a lot of same sex sexual behavior among nonhuman animals? It’s not adaptive. It’ll be the ruination of their species! So what if evolutionary biologists are finding out that such behavior can help colonies who, for example, have more females, by allowing them to share parenting, or provides more stability to the offspring of males? Data can lie, and I bet that data does, too.
Look, we know same sex relations are unnatural because so few people are actually gay. I mean, really, anything so few people choose to do is obviously “unnatural”, and thus morally problematic. I was just saying this to my spouse as we were watching a documentary on Mount Everest climbers. But — she argued, as she turned off the DVD player and put in a CD of Tuvan throat singers — mountain climbing is healthy and being gay is most certainly not!
Think of “gay sex”. You know what that means. Using your sexual organs in a way they were not meant to be used. Which is unhealthy and dangerous. Which is why heterosexuals absolutely never, and I mean never, perform oral sex, have anal intercourse, or do any of those “gay sex” acts.
Consider the human mouth. It is so clearly meant to function in one way — to feed us! All this other stuff we do with our mouths, like breathing, talking, singing, and kissing — especially if it’s same sex kissing — is so clearly morally problematic. Nature has determined the function of each of our organs, and if you doubt me I will simply remind you that ears are only for listening, not for adornment such as piercings, nor for holding back your (probably gay) long hairdo.
Also, when we look at the purpose of marriage, the reason most of us want the get married, it is clear same sex couples cannot participate in it. I got married because I wanted to spend the rest of my life with the person I love. I wanted someone on my side, a companion I could count on. Same sex couples don’t function that way!! I don’t know why, but I am sure they do not.
Studies show that heterosexual marriage is really good for us, healthwise, and emotionally, and financially. And it is good for society — it encourages stable unions, which are good for raising children, and which tend to curb destructive self-interested behavior, especially among males. Why would we want to allow same sex couples to get in on that? Why can’t they just do their own thing? So what if domestic partner laws offer only a fraction of the protections and benefits of marriage laws? So what if the proliferation of various forms of “marriage lite” is actually confusing the issue of which relationships deserve special social sanction and which do not?
I do not support discrimination against gays, I really don’t. It’s just that I don’t think they should be equal to heterosexuals before the law.
Look, same sex marriage is not “inherently procreative”. It doesn’t matter if some heterosexuals choose not to, or cannot, have children. The symbolism is there in the heterosexual union. Marriage contains within it important norms which are passed on from generation to generation, and they are related to the procreative function of the intimate opposite sex pair bond. Marriage is about engendering respect for the transmission of human life.
Same sex couples cannot procreate. Oh sure, there’s adoption, and IVF, and surrogacy, and many many other ways same sex couples can become parents. But what I really mean is that they cannot have them the proper way, by having sex with each other. This is why heterosexual couples who are infertile are not allowed to have kids, or even get married. Or shouldn’t be.
But the real point is not whether actual heterosexual couples have or don’t have kids. I admit, we don’t make them promise to have kids when they marry, and many heterosexual marriages are happily child-free. But the point is that there’s a societal interest in keeping nuclear families intact, and this is not something same sex couples (or singles) can enjoy. This is why no one in America, least of all Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt, or Sheryl Crow, is allowed to have kids unless they are married.
This is also why couples with children are not allowed to divorce, or hardly ever. I mean, if you have kids, and you want to divorce, you have to come up with really good reasons, like “irreconcilable differences”, and those are very hard to come by. Just ask the Gosselins.
Remember how I said before that so few people are gay that it must be an unnatural morally problematic aberration? Well, this is why I think allowing that small minority to marry will ruin marriage for the majority who are heterosexual. Think of how devastating the effects on the 90-95% of the population that is not gay will be of allowing the 5-10% of the population that is gay to marry!! It will be way worse than no fault divorce, which was responsible for the dramatic (40%) increase in the US divorce rate in the 1970s. If you doubt me, just look at the terrible effects of legalizing same sex marriage in Massachusetts, Iowa, Connecticut and Vermont.
Marriage has been our tradition. Oh, I know it may look like marriage has changed a lot over time. For example, arranged marriage for economic reasons, not romantic love was once the norm. And men were once legally allowed to rape or kill their wives, or to take multiple wives. And women were once expected to stay home to raise kids, with men as the breadwinners. But those are just surface changes. Once you have already decided, like I have, that marriage is essentially about the union of a vagina with a penis, you see that marriage has not changed at all in thousands of years!
A good argument if I ever heard one for not changing laws is that they have been our laws for a long time. I mean, a law is a law, and a tradition is a tradition, for a reason, right? Best not to tamper with them! I can not even think of a bad law in US history, as long as I don’t think about slavery, segregation, rape laws, forced sterilization, restrictive property laws, capital punishment, voting rights, or a host of others.
But the worst is the effect of same sex mariage on the children. Studies show that one effect on kids raised in same sex households is … and this is very upsetting, but bear with me … that they are more tolerant of homosexuality. We can’t allow this! Because being tolerant of homosexuality is the first step to actually being gay. (And this argument is not circular. At. All.) I’m sure of that, even though there is no data to suggest that children of same sex couples are more likely to identify as homosexual. Data can lie. And in this case, it sure does.
I also think it would be really bad for religious freedom. Oh, yes, I know the law says explicitly that religious leaders who perform marriages cannot be forced to carry out marriages contrary to their beliefs. But just because religious protections are written into our US constitution, our state constitutions, and the same sex marriage laws, doesn’t mean anything. I just know there’s a secret loophole, the same one that will force my rabbi to marry a Catholic couple.
You might notice that I haven’t said anything about effects on same sex couples of allowing them to marry. It’s because I don’t care.
Despite the fact that, legally, marriages in the US, as long as they are between two consenting adults, one male and one female, are pretty much anything the couple wants them to be — including the kind where “you live in New York, I will live in L.A, and I will see you every other year” — I am telling you, because I know, that the “essence” of marriage is the “symbolism” of the procreative union.
These other values which supporters of same sex marriage keep trumpeting — social stability, companionship, love, tolerance, acceptance, openness, equality, fairness, safety — are … really not important.
Are they?
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#1 by AQ on November 3, 2009 - 8:17 am
Wow. Just wow. You certainly took that to the nth degree.
#2 by Laura Vivanco on November 3, 2009 - 9:30 am
Mr Wayne Kerr’s very name is suggestive of a non-procreative sexual act. I wonder if bullying as a result of his parents’ naming choice has psychologically scarred Mr Kerr, putting him on the defensive with regards to matters of sexuality. Data shows that this kind of act does not lead to blindness or hairy hands. But perhaps Mr Kerr doesn’t believe this data either? Maybe this is why he’s so insistent that “Using your sexual organs in a way they were not meant to be used [...] is unhealthy and dangerous.”
#3 by Carolyn Crane on November 3, 2009 - 10:43 am
Ug.
#4 by Ann Somerville on November 3, 2009 - 11:23 am
@Laura Vivanco:
I have nothing to add. This says it all
#5 by katiebabs on November 3, 2009 - 12:20 pm
Who decided that being gay is “unnatural”?
#6 by Kat L. on November 3, 2009 - 12:29 pm
Well, that just took the fun out of it for me.
#7 by gwen hayes on November 3, 2009 - 12:32 pm
Um.
You guys?
I am pretty sure if you re-read the article, you will see that this is a sarcastic commentary on society’s views of natural vs unnatural.
Really. Look back at the parts about earthquakes and eating bugs and irreconcilable differences.
#8 by Ana on November 3, 2009 - 12:36 pm
Jessica *g* maybe you ought to put a “Don’t panic” sign somewhere.
#9 by Thea on November 3, 2009 - 12:43 pm
LOL, this post is hilarious and brilliant. I especially loved the bits about “unnaturalness” and how laws are standing traditions for a reason goddmmit and there are NEVER any bad laws!
Hilarious. Thanks for the great, sarcastic guest post, Wayne
(And yes, as Gwen Hayes and Ana say, it’s called sarcasm, y’all)
#10 by Mandi on November 3, 2009 - 1:00 pm
LOVE this post!!! Mr. uh..Wayne Kerr (HA)
It is completely absurd that there are people out there that actually believe this stuff. It makes me so freaking angry!!!
Come on Maine and Washington – show us what you got today.
#11 by willaful on November 3, 2009 - 1:20 pm
“I do not support discrimination against gays, I really don’t. It’s just that I don’t think they should be equal to heterosexuals before the law.”
One of those, “do I laugh or do I cry”? situations.
#12 by Ana on November 3, 2009 - 1:36 pm
OH. I see! So there is something going on today that prompted this post, asks the non-Us based reader?
#13 by Laura Vivanco on November 3, 2009 - 1:43 pm
Me! me! I know! (Laura jumps up and down in a very enthusiastic manner to catch the attention of Professor Jessica and to show she’s been paying very, very careful attention to every one of Professor Jessica’s words of wisdom
)
The third point in Monday’s post explains it all:
#14 by Jessica on November 3, 2009 - 1:53 pm
Wow, Laura. You must be in the Talented and Gifted program in Blog School! LOL! thank you for getting my joke, and for answering ana’s question.
Yes, I live in Maine, and today is election day. This has really been on my mind, and while I usually don;t do overtly political posts (this may be the first one, actually) I just couldn’t help it today.
I can give you a host of citations — most in peer reviewed philosophy journals – for every single argument against homosexuality or same sex marriage I rehearse in the text of the post. As you can tell, I find none of them remotely convincing.
#15 by Ana on November 3, 2009 - 2:02 pm
Duh, I did read your post yesterday and I totally forgot about that.Thanks Laura!!!
Jessica…that must have been painful.
#16 by Rebecca on November 3, 2009 - 3:20 pm
1) I *just* got the joke about the name, despite Laura Vivanco’s helpful comment:
My mind is not too sharp today.
2)
The philosophy journals…this has me curious. Is it just indicative of my familiarity with peer-reviewed philosophy journals to say that this surprised me?
At least in my studies, I’ve only been forced to explain to others why our journal is named after a female gynecological instrument. (It’s not. “Speculum” has a different meaning in medieval Latin. Really).
I’ll be watching Maine ballot initiative results this evening. Probably on Rachel Maddow.
Thanks for the post!
#17 by Jessica on November 3, 2009 - 3:29 pm
@Rebecca:
Oh, it depends on what journals you read. I could find a lot for the other view as well. I didn’t mean to imply otherwise, but I probably did.
And nice try on “Speculum”, but I have read Irigaray … just sayin’.
#18 by Sherry Thomas on November 3, 2009 - 3:52 pm
Just to come at it from a slightly different POV, when I was very young and very newly in the U.S., once I shook my head and rolled my eyes at the discrimination against the gays.
“What’s with Americans? In China we don’t discriminate against them,” I said to my mother.
“What are you talking about?” My mother gasped. “In China homosexuals go to jail.”
It became my turn to gasp. I had no idea. I had no idea much worse discrimination was happened b/c there nobody dared to be out and it was simply not a topic that ever came up in the news.
Mind you, this was 20 years ago. There probably has been progress, although how much, I really don’t know.
So whatever the outcome in Maine today, I think it is worth remembering how far gay rights have come in the U.S., and how many more rights gay people have achieved in this country as opposed to many other places in the world.
Now on with the march toward full equal rights.
#19 by AnimeJune on November 3, 2009 - 4:22 pm
I’m a regular practicing Catholic and the who argument about gay marriage has a lot of us really conflicted. In some parts of the Catholic community there is a fear that if gay marriage is made legal, than eventually Catholics may be forced to perform gay marriages. We’ve actually been having an influx of Anglican converts coming into the church because of the gay marriage issue.
There were similar arguments about Catholic doctors and the prescription of birth control.
Secular gay marriage all the way! Religious gay marriage – dude, Catholics STILL won’t let women into the priesthood. Realistically, it’s gonna take a looooong while.
#20 by Laura Vivanco on November 3, 2009 - 4:50 pm
I’ve read a few Speculum articles. I hadn’t thought about it before, but as far as I can remember, I’ve always pronounced it, in my head, as Latin (which means I treat it as though it’s Spanish) whereas I give the medical instrument an English pronunciation. I suppose that must have been because I was in my medieval Spanish mode when I when I was reading them.
#21 by Liz on November 3, 2009 - 5:11 pm
Great post, Jessica. I am an American living in Canada. Much of the time (don’t tell my Canadian friends) I barely notice I’m in a different country. But the relatively bloodless legalization of same-sex marriage here is one of those big cultural differences.
The other day a colleague happily announced that she had proposed to her girlfriend and her girlfriend said yes. The kicker: the girlfriend’s in the military, and that didn’t stop them from asking and telling.
#22 by Tumperkin on November 3, 2009 - 5:42 pm
Jessica – I’m a little disappointed that you haven’t entered into a Socratic dialogue with Mr Kerr, but maybe you feel his words speak for themselves *g*.
Very entertaining post. Are you able to listen to BBC radio programmes on the BBC radio website? Michael Sandel delivered the Reith lectures this year and touches on gay marriage in his lecture on morals and politics.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00l0y01
#23 by Jessica on November 3, 2009 - 5:44 pm
@Sherry Thomas: Yes, that’s a good reminder — how far we’ve come. I think what makes the situation here so difficult is that same sex marriage was made law in May, but never enacted because of the repeal initiative.
@AnimeJune:
I know this is a concern, and the Catholic church has been the major supporter of the movement to appeal the same sex marriage law. However, it is false that Catholic priests would be forced to marry same sex couples, and it is a shame that the “Yes on 1″ crowd is spreading fear rather than attempting to win its case on the merits.
I know Catholic doctrine on this issue very well, and I do have respect for it. It is part of a coherent view of personhood, human dignity, family, marriage, and reproduction which covers many different subjects, including capital punishment, abortion, and new reproductive technologies, as well as same sex marriage, with consistency and intelligence.
However, many Christians — including the Episcopal church, as you mention — support same sex marriage, not to mention many Catholics, several of whom are annoyed that the Catholic Diocese of Maine has spent millions on this one issue, rather than the many other pressing needs of its congregants.
In my view, it is wrong for one particular religion to dictate to everyone else what we should believe on an issue of such central importance to human beings. I guess we’ll see tonight whether the Catholic church speaks for the majority of Mainers. Even so, there are some rights that no majority vote should abrogate, and this is one of them, in my view.
@Liz: Oh, Canada. I can practically see it out my backyard window, but it’s very distant in the ways that matter!
#24 by AnimeJune on November 3, 2009 - 6:13 pm
Jessica, I wasn’t saying that the fear is a good enough reason to keep gay marriage illegal – I was just pointing out the good point you made that the fear of religious prosecution is behind some of the negativity.
#25 by Tumperkin on November 3, 2009 - 6:19 pm
Submitted too soon!
In the lecture I’ve linked to, Sandel talks about what the purpose of marriage is – that it’s fundamentally a state sanctioned institution; a public recognition of an exclusive relationship between two people. The question therefore is whether same sex marriage contains the same ‘virtues’ as heterosexual marriages which would entitle it to that state recognition.
Since two 80 year olds can get married and two infertile people or two people who don’t want children can get married, procreation clearly isn’t a sine qua non of marriage. The sine qua non is exclusivity / commitment. Looked at in those terms, it’s difficult to see what the argument against same sex marriage is other than a very straightforward moral disapproval of same sex relationships.
But Mr Kerr makes the case far more persuasively than I…
#26 by Jessica on November 3, 2009 - 6:39 pm
oh, I totally got what you were saying! I just wanted to note how large an issue the fear of persecution was in my state, and I also wanted to take the opportunity to say that I do respect where some religious opposition is coming from.
#27 by Jessica on November 3, 2009 - 7:02 pm
Thanks for the Sandel link! Anyone who is interested in watching videos of his very popular Justice course, taught at Harvard, can check out this link: http://justiceharvard.org/
And, no, I wasn’t feeling very Socratic when I wrote the post.
#28 by Karla on November 3, 2009 - 7:25 pm
Re the Catholic Church and gay marriage:
The Church refuses to marry heterosexual couples who are legally free to marry on a weekly, if not daily, basis, if one of them has been divorced. To the best of my knowledge, no priest has been forced to perform such a ceremony, and no priest will be legally forced to perform a gay marriage either.
#29 by Sherry Thomas on November 3, 2009 - 7:47 pm
@Jessica:
I perfectly understand. It’s one thing when rights have never been granted. It’s worse when granted rights are then taken away. Somehow it rubs rawer.
#30 by Kaetrin on November 3, 2009 - 9:16 pm
Dear Mr. Kerr,
What an interesting post. I wonder if you’ve seen the famous and illuminating documentary “In and Out*” in which the doctrine of “in holes” and “out holes” was first (IIRC) espoused? Apparently, there are certain (bodily) holes which are ONLY “in” holes and others that are ONLY “out” holes. There were only 2 exceptions to this rule – apparently it does not apply if one is in prison or in space (although I must say the reasoning behind (ahem, pardon the pun) the “space exception” was a bit unclear…
Yours faithfully,
Nota. Tallserious
* In and Out (1997) – starring Kevin Kline, Joan Cusack, Tom Selleck
#31 by Sherry Thomas on November 4, 2009 - 12:59 am
It’s not looking good for marriage equality in Maine at this point.
I guess we must take the long view.
Back to digging.
#32 by heidenkind on November 4, 2009 - 12:59 am
Is Wayne Kerr a pseudonym for Stephen Colbert? Because I think you might be channeling him in this post.
#33 by Rebecca on November 4, 2009 - 1:03 am
I’ve been forcing myself to stay awake tonight , to see if the “No on 1″ Campaign succeeded, but it looks like I might have to crash now. Yes, I could find out in the morning, but I am a politics junkie (and activist). Election night is sometimes a problem.
Sherry:
It’s like taking one step forward, then five steps back. It hurts. I remember the feeling of helplessness that overcame the activist community after Proposition 8 was passed in CA. Which was quickly followed by anger. There were rallies (which I participated in) but in many ways, it was a stunning blow to the activist community. It gave us momentum for “No on 1″ but…well, we’ll see what happens. For me, it’ll have to wait until the morning.
Sorry if this isn’t making sense, I’m really sleepy.
On a different matter:
Laura, I’ve always heard it in an English pronunciation, however, I like the Latin idea. It helps separate the two
AND:
I concede. Once again, Dr J wins!
Let me know how the Maine election turns out. (Not that I won’t also be checking out the news blogs, but I appreciated your post!)
#34 by Rebecca on November 4, 2009 - 1:15 am
@Sherry Thomas: Oh, no. Sherry, you’re right. (Just checked the online news websites).
The long view is what keeps me going as an activist. But still, it’s hard sometimes, to keep everything in the broader picture. Change takes time and energy and *involvement.* Er, I am dangerously close to the soapbox right now, which I try to avoid (sort of). So I’m going to stop hijacking the lovely Jessica’s blog, and go to sleep. Really.
But I will thank Jessica again for the post, for her vote on the issue, and for broadcasting the issue online.
I don’t remember how I came across this blog (a link on another blog?) but I’m so grateful I did!
#35 by SonomaLass on November 4, 2009 - 2:01 am
I’m still hoping that “too close to call” is a good sign in Maine. The vote was really close in California last year, too. The misinformation just makes me want to cry.
This post, though? Brilliant! I’m gonna share the link around a bit.
#36 by Jessica on November 4, 2009 - 6:02 am
Well, the same sex marriage law was repealed last night in Maine.
Very sad, but I look at it as a temporary setback. I think the question is when, not if, same sex marriage will be legal throughout the United States.
Thanks everyone!
#37 by Sherry Thomas on November 4, 2009 - 10:03 am
Here’s a link to an interview with Sir Ian McKellen (Gandalf himself).
The part where he’s asked about marriage is heartbreaking.
#38 by willaful on November 4, 2009 - 12:08 pm
“It’s like taking one step forward, then five steps back. It hurts. I remember the feeling of helplessness that overcame the activist community after Proposition 8 was passed in CA.”
Yes. I have a friend who traveled across the country to get married in California. The effect of Prop 8 on her was devastating. She was too depressed even to be active, which depressed her even more.
#39 by Cecilia March on November 4, 2009 - 1:26 pm
On the brighter side: Washington. It’s looking good. I am damn proud, this morning, to be one of many who cast a vote to uphold domestic-partner rights. I truly believe the rest of the country is not far behind.
#40 by SarahT on November 4, 2009 - 3:10 pm
Once I recovered from the shock, this post made me laugh out loud. Well played, Jessica!
#41 by SonomaLass on November 4, 2009 - 6:05 pm
Many of my gay friends consider themselves married, but none of them live in states where that’s legally possible. When California passed Prop. 8 last year, my partner and I made a vow NOT to marry until the institution of civil marriage was available to same-sex couples as well. I believe it will happen in time; most of the younger people I’ve talked to, particularly college students, believe it is the right thing to do.
Sherry, thanks so much for posting that interview with Sir Ian. It made me cry, but in a good way.
#42 by Janine on November 5, 2009 - 3:18 am
#43 by Karen Scott on November 6, 2009 - 4:39 pm
Lol, I literally just read the post on my Google Reader and bet TTG, that there would be some people who just wouldn’t get it and take offence.