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	<title>Comments on: Monday Morning Stepback: 2 Fake Rants and 1 Real One</title>
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	<link>http://www.readreactreview.com/2009/10/19/monday-morning-stepback-2-fake-rants-and-1-real-one/</link>
	<description>Book Reviews, Philosophy, Academic Life</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 12:53:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Liz</title>
		<link>http://www.readreactreview.com/2009/10/19/monday-morning-stepback-2-fake-rants-and-1-real-one/#comment-4802</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 20:15:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racyromancereviews.com/?p=3763#comment-4802</guid>
		<description>I see how I could have sounded like I was saying &quot;if you call someone&#039;s eyes black you&#039;re a racist.&quot;  But what I meant was this:

I have read a number of comments by people of color discussing how they (and children they know) are hurt by stereotypical descriptions of non-white characters that look at those people as types, not as individuals.  These critics were pointing out that writers who rely on shorthand common descriptions like &quot;black eyes&quot; (or obsidian!), rather than really looking at people and thinking about what they look like, are perpetuating stereotypes in ways that can be harmful or painful for some readers.  

Black eyes, though specifically mentioned in these discussions, are hardly the most egregious example, but it&#039;s part of a larger pattern.

So even though romance heroes with black eyes are (sadly) mostly white, I cringe whenever I see that description now.  

Perhaps it&#039;s not surprising to see such descriptive tics in romance, since, like other genres, it often trades in types (and I don&#039;t mean that as a criticism--one of the pleasures in reading it is coming upon old friends in new forms).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see how I could have sounded like I was saying &#8220;if you call someone&#8217;s eyes black you&#8217;re a racist.&#8221;  But what I meant was this:</p>
<p>I have read a number of comments by people of color discussing how they (and children they know) are hurt by stereotypical descriptions of non-white characters that look at those people as types, not as individuals.  These critics were pointing out that writers who rely on shorthand common descriptions like &#8220;black eyes&#8221; (or obsidian!), rather than really looking at people and thinking about what they look like, are perpetuating stereotypes in ways that can be harmful or painful for some readers.  </p>
<p>Black eyes, though specifically mentioned in these discussions, are hardly the most egregious example, but it&#8217;s part of a larger pattern.</p>
<p>So even though romance heroes with black eyes are (sadly) mostly white, I cringe whenever I see that description now.  </p>
<p>Perhaps it&#8217;s not surprising to see such descriptive tics in romance, since, like other genres, it often trades in types (and I don&#8217;t mean that as a criticism&#8211;one of the pleasures in reading it is coming upon old friends in new forms).</p>
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		<title>By: azteclady</title>
		<link>http://www.readreactreview.com/2009/10/19/monday-morning-stepback-2-fake-rants-and-1-real-one/#comment-4797</link>
		<dc:creator>azteclady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:55:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>My mother and son have really dark brown eyes, and it&#039;s often difficult to distinguish their pupils from the irises--except under direct sunlight.

Would it be a terrible solecism to refer to their eyes, casually, as black? Particularly since I&#039;ve known from an early age (thanks to my science-inclined older brothers) that humans do not have true-black eyes?

:razz:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My mother and son have really dark brown eyes, and it&#8217;s often difficult to distinguish their pupils from the irises&#8211;except under direct sunlight.</p>
<p>Would it be a terrible solecism to refer to their eyes, casually, as black? Particularly since I&#8217;ve known from an early age (thanks to my science-inclined older brothers) that humans do not have true-black eyes?</p>
<p> <img src='http://www.readreactreview.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':razz:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Tessa</title>
		<link>http://www.readreactreview.com/2009/10/19/monday-morning-stepback-2-fake-rants-and-1-real-one/#comment-4795</link>
		<dc:creator>Tessa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racyromancereviews.com/?p=3763#comment-4795</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;there was a boy in my class whose eyes were so dark that we could not distinguish between the iris and the pupil.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I have seen two guys like this recently on the Metro. Interestingly I noticed it because they were both white and so it was pretty startling to see eyes that dark. And thinking about it now, I have noticed it more with guys than women, and I am an equal opportunity people watcher.

I do agree though, that the term &quot;obsidian&quot; is rather cliche and often used to describe people of colour. And having noticed eyes like this recently, I would also have to say that they didn&#039;t look very obsidian at all. Hmm, what might a better descriptor be?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>there was a boy in my class whose eyes were so dark that we could not distinguish between the iris and the pupil.</p></blockquote>
<p>I have seen two guys like this recently on the Metro. Interestingly I noticed it because they were both white and so it was pretty startling to see eyes that dark. And thinking about it now, I have noticed it more with guys than women, and I am an equal opportunity people watcher.</p>
<p>I do agree though, that the term &#8220;obsidian&#8221; is rather cliche and often used to describe people of colour. And having noticed eyes like this recently, I would also have to say that they didn&#8217;t look very obsidian at all. Hmm, what might a better descriptor be?</p>
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		<title>By: Janine</title>
		<link>http://www.readreactreview.com/2009/10/19/monday-morning-stepback-2-fake-rants-and-1-real-one/#comment-4791</link>
		<dc:creator>Janine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:09:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racyromancereviews.com/?p=3763#comment-4791</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;What about the fact that, whatever adjective you use, human beings do not have black eyes? (Supernatural beings are another matter)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I have to disagree with this.  When I was in elementary school, there was a boy in my class whose eyes were so dark that we could not distinguish between the iris and the pupil.  I would call those black eyes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>What about the fact that, whatever adjective you use, human beings do not have black eyes? (Supernatural beings are another matter)</p></blockquote>
<p>I have to disagree with this.  When I was in elementary school, there was a boy in my class whose eyes were so dark that we could not distinguish between the iris and the pupil.  I would call those black eyes.</p>
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		<title>By: Jessica</title>
		<link>http://www.readreactreview.com/2009/10/19/monday-morning-stepback-2-fake-rants-and-1-real-one/#comment-4788</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 01:35:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racyromancereviews.com/?p=3763#comment-4788</guid>
		<description>Wow, very few of you guessed correctly on the real rant! Actually, I was in a really good mood when I wrote the post, so it was hard even thinking of a real rant. But ...

As for (a), yes, some folks are using the expression &quot;I want to have babies with this book&quot;, but I have no problem with it. I think it&#039;s cute, actually. 

As for (c), yes, there are a lot of promotions and contests going on, but it would be pretty churlish of me to complain about freebies.

The real rant is (b) obsidian. I am sick of it! I like the notion, below, that it is a &quot;careless descriptive cliche&quot;. 

&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;#comment-body-4760&quot;&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-4760&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Liz&lt;/a&gt; :&lt;/strong&gt;
                  &lt;div class=&quot;avatar&quot;&gt;&lt;img alt=&quot;&quot; src=&quot;http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/12c2b1a5acd9a3e21200943238d89917?s=64&amp;d=identicon&amp;r=R&quot; class=&quot;avatar avatar-64 photo&quot; height=&quot;64&quot; width=&quot;64&quot;&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
         
         
         &lt;div class=&quot;edit-comment&quot; id=&quot;edit-comment4760&quot;&gt;&lt;p&gt;What about the fact that, whatever adjective you use, human beings do not &lt;em&gt;have&lt;/em&gt; black eyes? (Supernatural beings are another matter).  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;One of my academic interests is children’s literature, and a number of critics there have pointed out that “black” eyes are often used in stereotypical depictions of people of colour (e.g. Debbie Reese who writes a great blog on American Indians in Children’s Literature).   Romance, on the other hand, seems to be full of white guys with black eyes, but it is still a careless descriptive cliche.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think c is your real rant, but b is mine for the day.
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;yarr&quot;&gt;&lt;span onclick=&#039;yus_replyTo(&quot;4760&quot;, &quot;Liz&quot;)&#039; title=&quot;Reply to this comment&quot;&gt;&lt;img alt=&quot;Reply&quot; src=&quot;http://www.racyromancereviews.com/wp-content/plugins/reply-to/reply.png&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
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       &lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, very few of you guessed correctly on the real rant! Actually, I was in a really good mood when I wrote the post, so it was hard even thinking of a real rant. But &#8230;</p>
<p>As for (a), yes, some folks are using the expression &#8220;I want to have babies with this book&#8221;, but I have no problem with it. I think it&#8217;s cute, actually. </p>
<p>As for (c), yes, there are a lot of promotions and contests going on, but it would be pretty churlish of me to complain about freebies.</p>
<p>The real rant is (b) obsidian. I am sick of it! I like the notion, below, that it is a &#8220;careless descriptive cliche&#8221;. </p>
<blockquote cite="#comment-body-4760"><p>
<strong><a href="#comment-4760" rel="nofollow">Liz</a> :</strong></p>
<div class="avatar"><img alt="" src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/12c2b1a5acd9a3e21200943238d89917?s=64&amp;d=identicon&amp;r=R" class="avatar avatar-64 photo" height="64" width="64"/></div>
<div class="edit-comment" id="edit-comment4760">
<p>What about the fact that, whatever adjective you use, human beings do not <em>have</em> black eyes? (Supernatural beings are another matter).  </p>
<p>One of my academic interests is children’s literature, and a number of critics there have pointed out that “black” eyes are often used in stereotypical depictions of people of colour (e.g. Debbie Reese who writes a great blog on American Indians in Children’s Literature).   Romance, on the other hand, seems to be full of white guys with black eyes, but it is still a careless descriptive cliche.</p>
<p>I think c is your real rant, but b is mine for the day.
</p>
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<p>         <a id="comment-reply-4760" rel="nofollow"></a>
       </p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Zoe Archer</title>
		<link>http://www.readreactreview.com/2009/10/19/monday-morning-stepback-2-fake-rants-and-1-real-one/#comment-4786</link>
		<dc:creator>Zoe Archer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 00:17:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racyromancereviews.com/?p=3763#comment-4786</guid>
		<description>If I can&#039;t give away my books in contests, I&#039;ll have to come up with alternate uses for author copies.

1) Build a fort with them.
2) Tear out the pages and use them to make a papier-mache, life-sized figures of my heroes with whom I can have my book babies.
3) Build a trebuchet on my roof and launch copies of my book at passers by, laughing maniacally whenever I bean one in the head or butt.
4) Take them all out for a nice meal but skip out on the check so they have to pay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I can&#8217;t give away my books in contests, I&#8217;ll have to come up with alternate uses for author copies.</p>
<p>1) Build a fort with them.<br />
2) Tear out the pages and use them to make a papier-mache, life-sized figures of my heroes with whom I can have my book babies.<br />
3) Build a trebuchet on my roof and launch copies of my book at passers by, laughing maniacally whenever I bean one in the head or butt.<br />
4) Take them all out for a nice meal but skip out on the check so they have to pay.</p>
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		<title>By: Christine</title>
		<link>http://www.readreactreview.com/2009/10/19/monday-morning-stepback-2-fake-rants-and-1-real-one/#comment-4778</link>
		<dc:creator>Christine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;m going with Rant A. 

Gotta love those parent teacher conferences. It&#039;s always good to find out exactly which family secrets have been plastered in the school hallway for all the world to see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m going with Rant A. </p>
<p>Gotta love those parent teacher conferences. It&#8217;s always good to find out exactly which family secrets have been plastered in the school hallway for all the world to see.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.readreactreview.com/2009/10/19/monday-morning-stepback-2-fake-rants-and-1-real-one/#comment-4768</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racyromancereviews.com/?p=3763#comment-4768</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the link, Jessica!

Writing that reminded me that I should try to get you to read the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Beggars-Spain-Nancy-Kress/dp/0060733489/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1256095569&amp;sr=8-1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Beggars&lt;/a&gt; books at some point...I think you&#039;d find them interesting.  I&#039;m afraid I can&#039;t think of any way to stretch them into being romances, though.

Oh, and I&#039;ll go with C.  What do we win? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link, Jessica!</p>
<p>Writing that reminded me that I should try to get you to read the <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Beggars-Spain-Nancy-Kress/dp/0060733489/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1256095569&amp;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow">Beggars</a> books at some point&#8230;I think you&#8217;d find them interesting.  I&#8217;m afraid I can&#8217;t think of any way to stretch them into being romances, though.</p>
<p>Oh, and I&#8217;ll go with C.  What do we win? <img src='http://www.readreactreview.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Tessa</title>
		<link>http://www.readreactreview.com/2009/10/19/monday-morning-stepback-2-fake-rants-and-1-real-one/#comment-4767</link>
		<dc:creator>Tessa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 02:53:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Aren&#039;t Sophia&#039;s eyes frequently describes as obsidian in Claudia Dain&#039;s Courtesan Chronicles? I know she has dark eyes, and they sparkle a lot, but I can&#039;t remember if the adjective she uses is obsidian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aren&#8217;t Sophia&#8217;s eyes frequently describes as obsidian in Claudia Dain&#8217;s Courtesan Chronicles? I know she has dark eyes, and they sparkle a lot, but I can&#8217;t remember if the adjective she uses is obsidian.</p>
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		<title>By: Casee</title>
		<link>http://www.readreactreview.com/2009/10/19/monday-morning-stepback-2-fake-rants-and-1-real-one/#comment-4761</link>
		<dc:creator>Casee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 20:43:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racyromancereviews.com/?p=3763#comment-4761</guid>
		<description>OMG, I am rolling re: parent-teacher conferences.  

At least they can be amusing. *g*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OMG, I am rolling re: parent-teacher conferences.  </p>
<p>At least they can be amusing. *g*</p>
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