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	<title>Comments on: February Book Club: The Edge of Impropriety, by Pam Rosenthal</title>
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	<link>http://www.readreactreview.com/2009/06/14/february-book-club-the-edge-of-impropriety-by-pam-rosenthal/</link>
	<description>Book Reviews, Philosophy, Academic Life</description>
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		<title>By: Janine</title>
		<link>http://www.readreactreview.com/2009/06/14/february-book-club-the-edge-of-impropriety-by-pam-rosenthal/#comment-3054</link>
		<dc:creator>Janine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racyromancereviews.com/?p=1937#comment-3054</guid>
		<description>I  thought this book was really good and enjoyed it much more than you did.  Jennie and I did a conversational review at Dear Author and I don&#039;t want to repeat what I said there here, but I was especially moved by Jasper&#039;s relationship with Anthony.

 My favorites of Rosenthal&#039;s works are the novella &quot;A House East of Regent Street&quot; (from an anthology called &lt;i&gt;Strangers in the Night&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;The Slightest Provocation&lt;/i&gt;.  I&#039;m not sure which of these to recommend you read first.  I agree with RfP that TSP is a more sophisticated book than TEOI.  The backstory is told in nonlinear flashbacks in a way that I found quite creative and inventive and the story has more angst than TEOI.  

&quot;A House East of Regent Street&quot; was my first experience of loving something of Rosenthal&#039;s (I am not fond of &lt;i&gt;Almost A Gentleman&lt;/i&gt;).  It was very sexy and unconventional (the heroine is an ex-prostitute, current mistress of a French prince and would-be madam, and the hero is a sailor who is courting a respectable young woman).  Since it&#039;s a novella, it is tighter than her novels and may be less introspective as a result (though as it&#039;s been a while since I last read it, I&#039;m not certain of that).  

I pimped both &quot;A House East of Regent Street&quot; and &lt;i&gt;The Slightest Provocation&lt;/i&gt; all over, and I would say I had more success pimping the former than the latter.  The novella is certainly more accessible, but for me, TSP was also very rewarding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I  thought this book was really good and enjoyed it much more than you did.  Jennie and I did a conversational review at Dear Author and I don&#8217;t want to repeat what I said there here, but I was especially moved by Jasper&#8217;s relationship with Anthony.</p>
<p> My favorites of Rosenthal&#8217;s works are the novella &#8220;A House East of Regent Street&#8221; (from an anthology called <i>Strangers in the Night</i> and <i>The Slightest Provocation</i>.  I&#8217;m not sure which of these to recommend you read first.  I agree with RfP that TSP is a more sophisticated book than TEOI.  The backstory is told in nonlinear flashbacks in a way that I found quite creative and inventive and the story has more angst than TEOI.  </p>
<p>&#8220;A House East of Regent Street&#8221; was my first experience of loving something of Rosenthal&#8217;s (I am not fond of <i>Almost A Gentleman</i>).  It was very sexy and unconventional (the heroine is an ex-prostitute, current mistress of a French prince and would-be madam, and the hero is a sailor who is courting a respectable young woman).  Since it&#8217;s a novella, it is tighter than her novels and may be less introspective as a result (though as it&#8217;s been a while since I last read it, I&#8217;m not certain of that).  </p>
<p>I pimped both &#8220;A House East of Regent Street&#8221; and <i>The Slightest Provocation</i> all over, and I would say I had more success pimping the former than the latter.  The novella is certainly more accessible, but for me, TSP was also very rewarding.</p>
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		<title>By: RfP</title>
		<link>http://www.readreactreview.com/2009/06/14/february-book-club-the-edge-of-impropriety-by-pam-rosenthal/#comment-3036</link>
		<dc:creator>RfP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 10:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racyromancereviews.com/?p=1937#comment-3036</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I also enjoyed the way the characters are connected in intricate and believable ways.&lt;/blockquote&gt;I liked that too; it&#039;s almost the opposite of a cabin romance/artificially isolated scenario.  I&#039;m reading a Georgette Heyer that reminds me all over again how much a good ensemble (or community, a la Crusie) can add to  romance.&lt;blockquote&gt;This kind of reflexive self-consciousness is not our normal mode of being in the world — not even for writers and scholars.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Oh, I don&#039;t know about that!&lt;blockquote&gt;they are so intellectual and thoughtful, only feeling emotions, when they do, through the lens of reflective distance, that I found myself not generating much emotion for them.&lt;/blockquote&gt;There I totally agree.  That type of relationship may suit two very cerebral characters, and the relationship may be stimulating rich inner lives, but it&#039;s not apparent on the page.&lt;blockquote&gt;As I read The Edge of Impropriety, I imagined that Rosenthal had just come off a Woolf binge when she wrote it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;If so, her binge was some years back, as I think she does it best in &lt;i&gt;Slightest Provocation&lt;/i&gt; (2006).  The past/present stream-of-consciousness in &lt;i&gt;TSP&lt;/i&gt; is more seamless and focuses on supporting the development of the *relationship*, not only the individual characters&#039; inner thoughts.
&lt;blockquote&gt;an eroticized Henry James&lt;/blockquote&gt;Oy.  Without having really thought about that before, at first glance I&#039;m not so sure. I do think some scenes in this book are in the vein of Anais Nin (in particular the sex scenes that are more an exploration of the woman&#039;s psyche than of a romance).  But I suppose the Henry James themes of US/European intellectual culture are present in her other books, e.g. &lt;i&gt;Bookseller&#039;s Daughter&lt;/i&gt;.
&lt;blockquote&gt;I think she requires a relatively patient reader and one who is willing to tolerate some unruly prose&lt;/blockquote&gt;I agree on the patience, but I don&#039;t find her prose unruly at all.  I find it remarkably deliberate.
&lt;blockquote&gt;I don’t find any of them particularly erotic. I find them ATTEMPTING to be erotic.&lt;/blockquote&gt;I think what they attempt is to develop character through sex scenes.  I don&#039;t find it at all erotic, but I do find it effective at showing the inner workings of the couple.

I think the whole field of &quot;erotic romance&quot; is badly named, though; I would call it &quot;explicit romance&quot;, as eros is so much in the eye of the beholder.  (BTW I don&#039;t find Steve Almond&#039;s writing erotic either, and he similarly writes sex scenes as character and action.)
&lt;blockquote&gt;The Slightest Provocation... the prose and the story are both a little more straightforward.&lt;/blockquote&gt;It&#039;s so interesting how our opinions vary!  I find &lt;i&gt;Provocation&lt;/i&gt; the more sophisticated book for its use of shifting times and tenses to build Kit and Mary&#039;s then-and-now relationship for the reader.  I think &lt;i&gt;TSP&lt;/i&gt; is particularly striking for its use of those techniques combined with sex scenes that are told in an earthy experiential manner that takes the participants out of time, rather than as a more flowery style of out-of-body experience (e.g. &quot;exploding stars&quot; verbiage).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I also enjoyed the way the characters are connected in intricate and believable ways.</p></blockquote>
<p>I liked that too; it&#8217;s almost the opposite of a cabin romance/artificially isolated scenario.  I&#8217;m reading a Georgette Heyer that reminds me all over again how much a good ensemble (or community, a la Crusie) can add to  romance.<br />
<blockquote>This kind of reflexive self-consciousness is not our normal mode of being in the world — not even for writers and scholars.</p></blockquote>
<p>Oh, I don&#8217;t know about that!<br />
<blockquote>they are so intellectual and thoughtful, only feeling emotions, when they do, through the lens of reflective distance, that I found myself not generating much emotion for them.</p></blockquote>
<p>There I totally agree.  That type of relationship may suit two very cerebral characters, and the relationship may be stimulating rich inner lives, but it&#8217;s not apparent on the page.<br />
<blockquote>As I read The Edge of Impropriety, I imagined that Rosenthal had just come off a Woolf binge when she wrote it.</p></blockquote>
<p>If so, her binge was some years back, as I think she does it best in <i>Slightest Provocation</i> (2006).  The past/present stream-of-consciousness in <i>TSP</i> is more seamless and focuses on supporting the development of the *relationship*, not only the individual characters&#8217; inner thoughts.</p>
<blockquote><p>an eroticized Henry James</p></blockquote>
<p>Oy.  Without having really thought about that before, at first glance I&#8217;m not so sure. I do think some scenes in this book are in the vein of Anais Nin (in particular the sex scenes that are more an exploration of the woman&#8217;s psyche than of a romance).  But I suppose the Henry James themes of US/European intellectual culture are present in her other books, e.g. <i>Bookseller&#8217;s Daughter</i>.</p>
<blockquote><p>I think she requires a relatively patient reader and one who is willing to tolerate some unruly prose</p></blockquote>
<p>I agree on the patience, but I don&#8217;t find her prose unruly at all.  I find it remarkably deliberate.</p>
<blockquote><p>I don’t find any of them particularly erotic. I find them ATTEMPTING to be erotic.</p></blockquote>
<p>I think what they attempt is to develop character through sex scenes.  I don&#8217;t find it at all erotic, but I do find it effective at showing the inner workings of the couple.</p>
<p>I think the whole field of &#8220;erotic romance&#8221; is badly named, though; I would call it &#8220;explicit romance&#8221;, as eros is so much in the eye of the beholder.  (BTW I don&#8217;t find Steve Almond&#8217;s writing erotic either, and he similarly writes sex scenes as character and action.)</p>
<blockquote><p>The Slightest Provocation&#8230; the prose and the story are both a little more straightforward.</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s so interesting how our opinions vary!  I find <i>Provocation</i> the more sophisticated book for its use of shifting times and tenses to build Kit and Mary&#8217;s then-and-now relationship for the reader.  I think <i>TSP</i> is particularly striking for its use of those techniques combined with sex scenes that are told in an earthy experiential manner that takes the participants out of time, rather than as a more flowery style of out-of-body experience (e.g. &#8220;exploding stars&#8221; verbiage).</p>
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		<title>By: heidenkind</title>
		<link>http://www.readreactreview.com/2009/06/14/february-book-club-the-edge-of-impropriety-by-pam-rosenthal/#comment-3035</link>
		<dc:creator>heidenkind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 06:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racyromancereviews.com/?p=1937#comment-3035</guid>
		<description>That novel sounds, hm, totally skippable.  I eroticized Henry James sounds like something to be avoided for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That novel sounds, hm, totally skippable.  I eroticized Henry James sounds like something to be avoided for me.</p>
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		<title>By: rigmarole</title>
		<link>http://www.readreactreview.com/2009/06/14/february-book-club-the-edge-of-impropriety-by-pam-rosenthal/#comment-3033</link>
		<dc:creator>rigmarole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:40:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racyromancereviews.com/?p=1937#comment-3033</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;@ Robin&lt;/b&gt;:
Oh, my dear Lord, no no no. I loved The Edge of Impropriety (and I had actually pretty much given up on the genre at that point,) but the thought of an eroticized Henry James is going to provide me with nightmares for at least a week. 

I am kind of known for my contrariness, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>@ Robin</b>:<br />
Oh, my dear Lord, no no no. I loved The Edge of Impropriety (and I had actually pretty much given up on the genre at that point,) but the thought of an eroticized Henry James is going to provide me with nightmares for at least a week. </p>
<p>I am kind of known for my contrariness, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Jorrie Spencer</title>
		<link>http://www.readreactreview.com/2009/06/14/february-book-club-the-edge-of-impropriety-by-pam-rosenthal/#comment-3032</link>
		<dc:creator>Jorrie Spencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racyromancereviews.com/?p=1937#comment-3032</guid>
		<description>While I thoroughly enjoyed this book, I wasn&#039;t particularly taken by the romance. In fact, the hook for me was Jasper&#039;s difficult relationship with Anthony which felt painful and real to me. I enjoyed her prose too, but I can see how someone wouldn&#039;t.

Interesting review!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I thoroughly enjoyed this book, I wasn&#8217;t particularly taken by the romance. In fact, the hook for me was Jasper&#8217;s difficult relationship with Anthony which felt painful and real to me. I enjoyed her prose too, but I can see how someone wouldn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Interesting review!</p>
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		<title>By: Robin</title>
		<link>http://www.readreactreview.com/2009/06/14/february-book-club-the-edge-of-impropriety-by-pam-rosenthal/#comment-3031</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 22:05:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racyromancereviews.com/?p=1937#comment-3031</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;@ Moriah Jovan&lt;/b&gt;:
I thought Rosenthal totally betrayed the set up in AAG by cracking the mystery so soon (and if it was accommodation to perceived Romance genre conventions, it missed big time for me, at least), so the book came across to me as MUCH more conventional than it otherwise might have been (even w/ more conventional set-up). Same w/ end of House East of Regent Street. And agree re. attempt to be erotic in AAG; the sex scenes in the book way too clinical and disinterested, IMO.

So I am definitely a bigger fan of the later books, which I find to be much more genre-bending and better written, even if they are sometimes too ponderous in their articulation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>@ Moriah Jovan</b>:<br />
I thought Rosenthal totally betrayed the set up in AAG by cracking the mystery so soon (and if it was accommodation to perceived Romance genre conventions, it missed big time for me, at least), so the book came across to me as MUCH more conventional than it otherwise might have been (even w/ more conventional set-up). Same w/ end of House East of Regent Street. And agree re. attempt to be erotic in AAG; the sex scenes in the book way too clinical and disinterested, IMO.</p>
<p>So I am definitely a bigger fan of the later books, which I find to be much more genre-bending and better written, even if they are sometimes too ponderous in their articulation.</p>
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		<title>By: Meriam</title>
		<link>http://www.readreactreview.com/2009/06/14/february-book-club-the-edge-of-impropriety-by-pam-rosenthal/#comment-3030</link>
		<dc:creator>Meriam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racyromancereviews.com/?p=1937#comment-3030</guid>
		<description>Robin: I really like Henry James, and I like and admire Rosenthal... neat. 

Jessica: Although I liked the novel a lot more than you did, I can&#039;t actually disagree with the points you raised. The inner monologues were tiresome (I can relate to  excessive &#039;reflexive self-consciousness,&#039; just not with an entire cast of characters).

I like her style, I find it an refreshing and important voice in the genre. What didn&#039;t work for me was the romance, and I think that was partly because Rosenthal seemed more interested in her beautifully depicted world and her writing, and even her individual characters, than the romantic plot itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robin: I really like Henry James, and I like and admire Rosenthal&#8230; neat. </p>
<p>Jessica: Although I liked the novel a lot more than you did, I can&#8217;t actually disagree with the points you raised. The inner monologues were tiresome (I can relate to  excessive &#8216;reflexive self-consciousness,&#8217; just not with an entire cast of characters).</p>
<p>I like her style, I find it an refreshing and important voice in the genre. What didn&#8217;t work for me was the romance, and I think that was partly because Rosenthal seemed more interested in her beautifully depicted world and her writing, and even her individual characters, than the romantic plot itself.</p>
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		<title>By: Moriah Jovan</title>
		<link>http://www.readreactreview.com/2009/06/14/february-book-club-the-edge-of-impropriety-by-pam-rosenthal/#comment-3029</link>
		<dc:creator>Moriah Jovan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racyromancereviews.com/?p=1937#comment-3029</guid>
		<description>I DNF&#039;d &lt;i&gt;Almost a Gentleman&lt;/i&gt; because I figured out the whodunnit by 25% of the way in, and the relationship wasn&#039;t strong enough to keep me going.

&lt;i&gt;The Bookseller&#039;s Daughter&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;The Slightest Provocation&lt;/i&gt; (especially) I truly liked. I do love her style/voice.  HOWEVER, I don&#039;t find any of them particularly erotic. I find them ATTEMPTING to be erotic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I DNF&#8217;d <i>Almost a Gentleman</i> because I figured out the whodunnit by 25% of the way in, and the relationship wasn&#8217;t strong enough to keep me going.</p>
<p><i>The Bookseller&#8217;s Daughter</i> and <i>The Slightest Provocation</i> (especially) I truly liked. I do love her style/voice.  HOWEVER, I don&#8217;t find any of them particularly erotic. I find them ATTEMPTING to be erotic.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin</title>
		<link>http://www.readreactreview.com/2009/06/14/february-book-club-the-edge-of-impropriety-by-pam-rosenthal/#comment-3028</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racyromancereviews.com/?p=1937#comment-3028</guid>
		<description>I find Rosenthal an author for readers who would love an eroticized Henry James, IMO.  I had enormous problems with her first release, Almost A Gentleman, but I really liked her two most recent books, TSP &amp; EoI.  However, I think she requires a relatively patient reader and one who is willing to tolerate some unruly prose because it contains some really wonderful stuff, too.  

I&#039;m not sure, though, you could effectively &quot;weed&quot; her prose, because I&#039;m starting to think that it&#039;d be near impossible to edit it in a way that would preserve the best.  I&#039;d like to see Rosenthal continue to evolve in her writing voice, but I&#039;m not sure I anticipate a significant change in her style. As Tumperkin says, though, you may like The Slightest Provocation better, or even one of her earlier books like AAG, which IIRC is less circuitous in its prose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find Rosenthal an author for readers who would love an eroticized Henry James, IMO.  I had enormous problems with her first release, Almost A Gentleman, but I really liked her two most recent books, TSP &amp; EoI.  However, I think she requires a relatively patient reader and one who is willing to tolerate some unruly prose because it contains some really wonderful stuff, too.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure, though, you could effectively &#8220;weed&#8221; her prose, because I&#8217;m starting to think that it&#8217;d be near impossible to edit it in a way that would preserve the best.  I&#8217;d like to see Rosenthal continue to evolve in her writing voice, but I&#8217;m not sure I anticipate a significant change in her style. As Tumperkin says, though, you may like The Slightest Provocation better, or even one of her earlier books like AAG, which IIRC is less circuitous in its prose.</p>
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		<title>By: Tumperkin</title>
		<link>http://www.readreactreview.com/2009/06/14/february-book-club-the-edge-of-impropriety-by-pam-rosenthal/#comment-3026</link>
		<dc:creator>Tumperkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:40:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racyromancereviews.com/?p=1937#comment-3026</guid>
		<description>My review is now also up.

As you know, I really loved this book.  But I know exactly what you mean and I didn&#039;t really love it AS a romance.  I loved the breathless prose and - more than that - the skillful weaving of the story; the neatness and cogency of the themes and ideas.  But you&#039;re absolutely right that it&#039;s not an emotional book at all.  And yes, if I&#039;d judged it as a romance novel, scoring it on what I look for from a romance novel, I think I too would have found it lacking.  But that wasn&#039;t how I read it.

One point you raised was that you couldn&#039;t understand what Marina found appealing about Jasper.  For me, this was quite simple: it was his appearance.  The book talks a lot about appearances and what these signify.  How important physical appeal is.  I found this refreshing given that so many romance novels have preternaturally beautiful protagonists while simultaneously implying that that isn&#039;t What Really Matters.     

You might not be minded to give her another go, but I have a feeling you may prefer The Slightest Provocation which I read shortly after this one.  I didn&#039;t find it as good as this one, but my recollection is that the prose and the story are both a little more straightforward.  I found it quite an interesting take on the estranged spouses trope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My review is now also up.</p>
<p>As you know, I really loved this book.  But I know exactly what you mean and I didn&#8217;t really love it AS a romance.  I loved the breathless prose and &#8211; more than that &#8211; the skillful weaving of the story; the neatness and cogency of the themes and ideas.  But you&#8217;re absolutely right that it&#8217;s not an emotional book at all.  And yes, if I&#8217;d judged it as a romance novel, scoring it on what I look for from a romance novel, I think I too would have found it lacking.  But that wasn&#8217;t how I read it.</p>
<p>One point you raised was that you couldn&#8217;t understand what Marina found appealing about Jasper.  For me, this was quite simple: it was his appearance.  The book talks a lot about appearances and what these signify.  How important physical appeal is.  I found this refreshing given that so many romance novels have preternaturally beautiful protagonists while simultaneously implying that that isn&#8217;t What Really Matters.     </p>
<p>You might not be minded to give her another go, but I have a feeling you may prefer The Slightest Provocation which I read shortly after this one.  I didn&#8217;t find it as good as this one, but my recollection is that the prose and the story are both a little more straightforward.  I found it quite an interesting take on the estranged spouses trope.</p>
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